How to Make Sure You Have a Horrible Interview For a Law Job
The biggest reason so many people end up disillusioned in law school is because of unmet expectations. We come in expecting great jobs, interesting work, and endless opportunities. We later come to find out that jobs are scarce, the work is boring, and the opportunities are limited. Thus, there often comes a turning point when we have to decide whether to accept it for what it is and take it, or move on to look for something better. If you have been offered a job that you don’t want, but think you need, you have an important decision to make: Do you accept it and the accompanying unhappiness, or do you take the road less traveled and go for what you really want?
My second year of law school was a personal struggle: I realized that I wasn’t really interested in becoming a lawyer anymore, but I didn’t want to burn that bridge yet. I had no interest in a large firm job, so by default I thought I’d end up with a small firm. I had a few interviews, with varying success, but I hadn’t accepted any jobs yet. Then, during spring exams, I got a call from a local bankruptcy firm that I had applied to. They wanted to do an interview. The firm was well-known locally, and was a highly respected small firm around town. It would have been a great opportunity for someone interested in doing this kind of law.
I went in for the interview, where I met with the two partners. The office we were in was messy, stacks of paper all over the place, files piled on the floor, a half-eaten sandwich on the desk. The two attorneys looked to be in the same condition as the office: large bags under their eyes, sleeves rolled up on their dress shirts, top buttons unbuttoned and ties loosened, and they seemed genuinely relieved to be able to take a 45 minute “break” to interview me.
From the outset, the interview was going well. I established a good rapport with them, I gave good, bullshit answers that they wanted to hear. They explained the position to me, and I could not have been more bored. Bankruptcy law is just as dry as it sounds. My interest in the job went from ‘low’ to ‘negative’. I looked around the messy office, looked at the two stressed out lawyers interviewing me, and realized that I had no desire to do this.
But it wasn’t that simple. I needed to do something that summer and I wasn’t in the position to be turning down jobs. It would be so much easier if I wasn’t offered the job; then I could go out and take a risk, find something I really wanted. But from how the attorneys were treating me, I knew they would make me an offer. So at that moment I made a decision. I was going to take a dive.
I would throw the interview.
Just when I made that decision, they gave me the perfect opportunity to start, by asking if I was going to be able to work during the school year. I looked right at them and said, “I don’t know, my schedule is going to keep me pretty busy.” I was hoping it would turn the interview sour, but one of the attorneys said “That’s okay, we understand. We’ll work around your schedule, whatever it is.”
Damnit! I needed to do better than that. So when they opened it up to me for questions, I put Interview Mike back into his box and brought Real Mike out to continue with the rest of the interview. “What kind of vacation time will I get?”… “What sort of hours will I have to work?”… “How long can I take for my lunch break?”…”Can I run home at some point to let my dog out?”
When they told me there would be long hours, I winced. When they told me that I probably couldn’t take any vacation time, I grumbled. When they told me lunch was an hour and that I could go let my dog out then, I seemed positively confused.
Soon, the interview ended. Their demeanor went from happy and enthusiastic at the beginning of the interview to cold and annoyed by the end. Obviously, I had met my objective. So you can imagine my shock when they called me and offered the job. So I did what I should have done in the first place; I asked for a ridiculous amount of money, and when they refused, I told them I had to pass.
[thanks to mike]
Law School Summer Programs: U.S. Attorney’s Office
This past summer, I had the fantastic opportunity to spend ten weeks working for the U.S. Attorney’s Office in Florida. I had tremendous opportunities to gain hands-on experience and take on substantial responsibility even with only one year of law school experience. Further, fighting white collar crime in my hometown community, recently dubbed the nation’s “mortgage fraud capital,” was extremely rewarding.
The Department of Justice and U.S. Attorney’s Office have awesome programs each summer that are very popular with students. I chose to go to a smaller office (only seven Assistant U.S. Attorneys) and work in its white-collar division, where I worked on a wide variety of cases including tax evasion, bank fraud, mortgage fraud, securities fraud, and money laundering. Additionally, I had the opportunity to work on drug-trafficking, immigration, civil litigation, and human-trafficking cases. Working in a smaller office was very unique as I spent a tremendous amount of one-on-one time with a small group of attorneys and still had the opportunity to work on high-profile cases. Over the course of the summer, I even had three of my very own pre-indictment cases to manage and worked with the federal agencies investigating these cases, including the Federal Bureau of Investigation, Internal Revenue Service, Department of the Treasury, Immigration and Customs Enforcement, and Secret Service.
Another great thing about working at the U.S. Attorney’s Office was the amount of time I spent in courtrooms throughout the summer. The Assistant U.S. Attorneys were great about bringing my fellow-interns and me to court as often as possible, and it was not uncommon for us to be in court four or five times a day. Further, in just ten weeks I had the opportunity to participate in three trials—which can take years in the private sector to do. In one particular trial I even had the opportunity to create jury exhibits for a money laundering trial to show how the money flowed through the scheme, in addition to numerous motions and research memorandums over the course of the internship.
Being a “Fed” for the summer was more valuable in terms of experience and job satisfaction than I can explain; it felt great waking up every morning to go (help) enforce justice and the law. Additionally, I was able to learn valuable trial strategy and the importance of prosecutorial ethics from my field supervisor Doug Molloy—Chief Assistant U.S. Attorney of the Fort Myers Division and legendary prosecutor in South Florida (see the original Miami Vice). Additionally, because of the great SPIF program at HLS, the school subsidizes expenses for students who spend their summer doing public interest work—including working at the Department of Justice or U.S. Attorney’s Office.
For those who have not considered public interest work, it is very rewarding and I highly recommend the program. Whether you want to go into the public or private legal sector, a summer at the U.S. Attorney’s Office can be outstanding training for your career.
[thanks to ktylerconk and hls in focus via cc]
Career Services Office: Truth About How Big Law Firms Hire
During the first few weeks and months of law school, 1Ls are blissfully unaware of the realities of the legal world. All that matters at that point is getting to class and being prepared. There are no worries about improving grades or maintaining grades, because there are no grades to improve upon or maintain. The ugliness that some students can exhibit hasn’t shown itself fully. Jobs are not a concern, because many law schools prohibit full time students from working, and legal employers are not allowed to talk to 1Ls until November of their first year. Except for a select few who have seen through the looking glass, many believe that whatever job they want will be theirs for the taking, and that employers will fight over who gets to hand them $2000 per week in the coming summer.
In light of this naivety, it is no surprise that when the Career Services office hauled my class into school on a Saturday in early November of our first year, attendance was robust. Sure, we were giving up half of a Saturday, but this was the vaunted Career Services office. They were all knowing, all powerful. With just a simple phone call, they could have potential employers in a bidding war over your services. Or so the story went. By sitting through this meeting, we would know just how much we could expect to be earning come May, and just how easy it would be to get those jobs.
Naturally, when so little is known about an entity, stories about it are invented to make up for the lack of real information. How were we supposed to know that Career Services is typically worthless? That we could get better advice from the homeless guy who hangs out around campus? That the only people it can actually help find a job are those people who don’t need help finding jobs in the first place? That spending your Saturday morning counting the number of tiles in your kitchen would be infinitely more productive?
After listening to the Dean of the school and the Dean of Career Services each deliver the exact same fifteen minute long speech, our guest speakers arrived. They included someone from the Prosecutor’s office, a couple of attorneys from small and mid-sized firms around town, and the hiring partner from a large and prestigious firm in a nearby city. The big firm hiring partner stuck out. He wore a $2000 suit, $500 shoes, a $200 tie, and a $100 haircut, while the other collectively looked like the bargain rack at Sears. As the other people took turns speaking, he looked bored, aggravated, annoyed, and eventually, homicidal. I could tell he didn’t belong, and my mind raced as to why he was there. Finally, it was his turn to speak. Most of the students in the room perked up. After all, the big firms, that’s where the money is. This guy is sure to give some insights, right?
I don’t remember exactly what he said, but it was brief, harsh, and completely deflated the hopes and dreams of many in that room. His message boiled down to this: “We don’t hire 1Ls, and even if we did, we wouldn’t hire any of you.”
Many people were shocked and appalled by his candor, while I was refreshed. For the first time, I could see law school for what it was. Of all people, a big firm hiring partner gave me a better perspective on life.
[thanks to poeloq and barely legal via cc]
