How to Make Sure You Have a Horrible Interview For a Law Job
The biggest reason so many people end up disillusioned in law school is because of unmet expectations. We come in expecting great jobs, interesting work, and endless opportunities. We later come to find out that jobs are scarce, the work is boring, and the opportunities are limited. Thus, there often comes a turning point when we have to decide whether to accept it for what it is and take it, or move on to look for something better. If you have been offered a job that you don’t want, but think you need, you have an important decision to make: Do you accept it and the accompanying unhappiness, or do you take the road less traveled and go for what you really want?
My second year of law school was a personal struggle: I realized that I wasn’t really interested in becoming a lawyer anymore, but I didn’t want to burn that bridge yet. I had no interest in a large firm job, so by default I thought I’d end up with a small firm. I had a few interviews, with varying success, but I hadn’t accepted any jobs yet. Then, during spring exams, I got a call from a local bankruptcy firm that I had applied to. They wanted to do an interview. The firm was well-known locally, and was a highly respected small firm around town. It would have been a great opportunity for someone interested in doing this kind of law.
I went in for the interview, where I met with the two partners. The office we were in was messy, stacks of paper all over the place, files piled on the floor, a half-eaten sandwich on the desk. The two attorneys looked to be in the same condition as the office: large bags under their eyes, sleeves rolled up on their dress shirts, top buttons unbuttoned and ties loosened, and they seemed genuinely relieved to be able to take a 45 minute “break” to interview me.
From the outset, the interview was going well. I established a good rapport with them, I gave good, bullshit answers that they wanted to hear. They explained the position to me, and I could not have been more bored. Bankruptcy law is just as dry as it sounds. My interest in the job went from ‘low’ to ‘negative’. I looked around the messy office, looked at the two stressed out lawyers interviewing me, and realized that I had no desire to do this.
But it wasn’t that simple. I needed to do something that summer and I wasn’t in the position to be turning down jobs. It would be so much easier if I wasn’t offered the job; then I could go out and take a risk, find something I really wanted. But from how the attorneys were treating me, I knew they would make me an offer. So at that moment I made a decision. I was going to take a dive.
I would throw the interview.
Just when I made that decision, they gave me the perfect opportunity to start, by asking if I was going to be able to work during the school year. I looked right at them and said, “I don’t know, my schedule is going to keep me pretty busy.” I was hoping it would turn the interview sour, but one of the attorneys said “That’s okay, we understand. We’ll work around your schedule, whatever it is.”
Damnit! I needed to do better than that. So when they opened it up to me for questions, I put Interview Mike back into his box and brought Real Mike out to continue with the rest of the interview. “What kind of vacation time will I get?”… “What sort of hours will I have to work?”… “How long can I take for my lunch break?”…”Can I run home at some point to let my dog out?”
When they told me there would be long hours, I winced. When they told me that I probably couldn’t take any vacation time, I grumbled. When they told me lunch was an hour and that I could go let my dog out then, I seemed positively confused.
Soon, the interview ended. Their demeanor went from happy and enthusiastic at the beginning of the interview to cold and annoyed by the end. Obviously, I had met my objective. So you can imagine my shock when they called me and offered the job. So I did what I should have done in the first place; I asked for a ridiculous amount of money, and when they refused, I told them I had to pass.
[thanks to mike]
Law School Summer Programs: U.S. Attorney’s Office
This past summer, I had the fantastic opportunity to spend ten weeks working for the U.S. Attorney’s Office in Florida. I had tremendous opportunities to gain hands-on experience and take on substantial responsibility even with only one year of law school experience. Further, fighting white collar crime in my hometown community, recently dubbed the nation’s “mortgage fraud capital,” was extremely rewarding.
The Department of Justice and U.S. Attorney’s Office have awesome programs each summer that are very popular with students. I chose to go to a smaller office (only seven Assistant U.S. Attorneys) and work in its white-collar division, where I worked on a wide variety of cases including tax evasion, bank fraud, mortgage fraud, securities fraud, and money laundering. Additionally, I had the opportunity to work on drug-trafficking, immigration, civil litigation, and human-trafficking cases. Working in a smaller office was very unique as I spent a tremendous amount of one-on-one time with a small group of attorneys and still had the opportunity to work on high-profile cases. Over the course of the summer, I even had three of my very own pre-indictment cases to manage and worked with the federal agencies investigating these cases, including the Federal Bureau of Investigation, Internal Revenue Service, Department of the Treasury, Immigration and Customs Enforcement, and Secret Service.
Another great thing about working at the U.S. Attorney’s Office was the amount of time I spent in courtrooms throughout the summer. The Assistant U.S. Attorneys were great about bringing my fellow-interns and me to court as often as possible, and it was not uncommon for us to be in court four or five times a day. Further, in just ten weeks I had the opportunity to participate in three trials—which can take years in the private sector to do. In one particular trial I even had the opportunity to create jury exhibits for a money laundering trial to show how the money flowed through the scheme, in addition to numerous motions and research memorandums over the course of the internship.
Being a “Fed” for the summer was more valuable in terms of experience and job satisfaction than I can explain; it felt great waking up every morning to go (help) enforce justice and the law. Additionally, I was able to learn valuable trial strategy and the importance of prosecutorial ethics from my field supervisor Doug Molloy—Chief Assistant U.S. Attorney of the Fort Myers Division and legendary prosecutor in South Florida (see the original Miami Vice). Additionally, because of the great SPIF program at HLS, the school subsidizes expenses for students who spend their summer doing public interest work—including working at the Department of Justice or U.S. Attorney’s Office.
For those who have not considered public interest work, it is very rewarding and I highly recommend the program. Whether you want to go into the public or private legal sector, a summer at the U.S. Attorney’s Office can be outstanding training for your career.
[thanks to ktylerconk and hls in focus via cc]
Go to Lunch With Your Law Professor: Get Personal
I always find my professors a little intimidating the first couple of weeks of class before I get to know them a little better. I’m especially afraid of them when they use the Socratic method…but this semester I got a head start. My secured transactions professor offered to take us out to lunch in small groups and put out a sign up sheet the very first class. A couple of friends and I decided to take him up on his offer and went out with him last Wednesday after class. The day that we were scheduled to go out to lunch with him, our Professor started class by saying how disappointed he was in us as a group. I thought he was going to say something about us not understanding the material or something but instead he said that no one had signed up for lunch with him for the rest of the semester. I felt relieved and glad that he really wanted us to sign up for lunch with him. Professor Kaufmann insisted that we had to pick the restaurant so of course we went with Thai food, our favorite. We walked to 9 Tastes in Harvard Square.
The walk over was full of small talk and long awkward pauses because none of us knew what to ask or say at first. About halfway there we came to an understanding that we would just alternate asking questions. By the time we got to 9 Tastes we knew what everyone was doing for the summer and that our professor had clerked for Justice Rehnquist on the Supreme Court. Our conversation in the restaurant was much less awkward. We slowly became more and more comfortable talking. Professor Kaufmann told us how he came to write a biography of Justice Cardozo, what the law school was like forty years ago, and how he came to teach secured transactions. We got to know our professor on a more personal level as well, which was really nice.
I sometimes forget that my professors are people who go home after work and have normal lives. I find that my professors intimidate me less the moment after they mention a child or spouse in an anecdote they tell in class. So getting to know my professors helps me to get over my fear of the Socratic method, which Professor Kaufmann definitely loves to use, and just focus on learning the material rather than freak out because I might be called on next. I definitely think the rest of my class should take advantage and sign up for lunch as soon as possible. Teachers who have been around as long as Professor Kaufmann have a lot of wisdom to share and not taking advantage of that seems just silly.
[thanks to nicmcphee and hls in focus via cc]
